Brian: Good afternoon, Tom, and thank you for taking the time to answer a few questions for our readers.

Tom: Hello, Brian, always good to visit with you.

Brian: What first attracted you to historical fencing?

Tom: My love for historical fencing has its roots in my childhood. I grew up in a small town near Milan, Italy, and my parents tried from my earliest days to share their love of history with me. Consequently, the family excursions to the Sforza castle in Milan were a lot more frequent than those to the zoo or amusement park. It was in the course of one of these visits that I happened to stop in front of a rapier display in the castle’s armory. I still remember that feeling: it was love at first sight – or aesthetic arrest, as Joseph Campbell would say.

I spent the next few years reading all I could about the swords themselves, but in the back of my mind I knew that I thirsted for more knowledge. How were these swords used? It was around twelve years ago that I decided to obtain photocopies of three major 17^th century rapier treatises. One was Capoferro – the one all the Victorian and Edwardian fencing historians praised – one was Alfieri; the third one was Fabris, an author I knew very little about.

When the three books arrived, I devoured the first two in a matter of a few days. Then, I reluctantly opened the third, a massive 261-page tome thick with text. Oh my, was that a revelation. I immediately realized that Fabris’ treatise was of uncommon quality, and that it was the best avenue for a modern student to understand Renaissance rapier fencing. Since that day, I have been a devoted student of Fabris, and my passion is growing year after year.

Brian: What other background do you have that helps to reconstruct techniques or fuels your interest?

Tom: I have been lucky enough to obtain a solid Classical education. I started studying Latin and philology privately at the age of eleven, then I attended one of the most prestigious Classical Lyceums in Northern Italy. I believe this gave me the intellectual foundations to tackle period texts very analytically and to understand the historical and philosophical background of the men who wrote them.

I also have extensive experience in philological early-music performance practice, which is a discipline in many ways similar to historical swordsmanship. Much of it is based upon studying period treatises, extracting the principles of the art and applying these to practical performance through drills and exercises. Only, instead of studying Fiore de’Liberi and Salvator Fabris, you study Emanuel Bach and Leopold Mozart. The early-music movement is several decades older than the revival of historical swordsmanship, so I was able to learn an established methodology that I applied to the new discipline, saving myself a lot of trial and error.

Philology is a very powerful tool. Through the meticulous analysis of the language of the period texts, you effectively build an intellectual bridge between you (the researcher) and the men who wrote the texts centuries ago. This enables you to delve to a much deeper level of understanding, because you have a chance to get intimately close to their true intent.

Brian: What is it about Fabris’ work that you find so appealing?

Tom: In two words, clarity and thoroughness.

As far as clarity, we have to understand that swordsmanship is an art in the Classical sense – I mean not like beatnik poetry, but like architecture. Arts have rules designed to achieve repeatable results in an efficient and consistent manner. In the case of architecture, the result is to build something stable; in the case of swordsmanship, it is to remain safe while defeating the opponent. Rules are based on scientific principles founded upon geometry as well as the Aristotelian concepts of space and time. Fabris presents these rules not only very clearly, but also more scientifically and logically than any other Italian author I have read – yet always avoiding difficult language or overly complex ideas. With Fabris, even a novice can truly understand the art of swordsmanship and figure out why certain things work and why others do not. Talk about valuable.

As far as thoroughness, Fabris actually gives us four treatises in one: sword alone, sword and dagger, sword and cape and a really fabulous Book II on “black-belt” techniques. While most other authors speak of the dagger and the cape, none does so as extensively as Fabris; also, no one else shows you how to use the rules of the art to create as much fencing repertoire.  

Brian: Who do you think this book would appeal to, and why?

Tom: First of all, rapier fencers of all levels and historical martial artists in general will find an unprecedented treasure of information in this book. Fabris was a great teacher – methodical and clear – so much so that a great King employed him. And his writing on the subject of rapier fencing are (I believe) more valuable than any other I have seen. For a four-hundred year old book, it is amazingly modern in the way it reads. It is like a modern manual written by a successful professional about “his” subject, and composed late enough in life that the author has no secrets to retain for himself.

Then, this book will be of interest to anyone who has a passion for the Renaissance, dueling and chivalry.

Brian: Many of our readers are keenly interested in the process of reconstructing historical fighting techniques. Can you tell us how you approached this translation? What motivated you? How did you progress with the work once you decided to translate for publication?

Tom: The first thing was making sure that my understanding of the original text was relatively solid, in a logical and philological sense. This took about five years and, in many ways, it is a process that will never end. I must have read and analyzed Fabris’ text at least sixty times; my first copy has several “generations” of notes in pencil, all dated to monitor my progress, and it is so used and abused that I recently had to retire it. This process was of course complemented by meticulous practical application, sword in hand.

Once I felt that my understanding was sufficiently grounded, I decided that a work such as Fabris’ was so outstanding that it simply had to be made available to the many rapier enthusiasts here in the US. This is about the time when you and I crossed paths, and the rest is history.

I guess the greatest challenge in this endeavor was to constantly ensure that the translation was as up to date with my understanding as possible. This, of course, took several revisions. Also, I tried really hard to preserve Fabris’ writing style which, as I said, was amazingly modern and clear for its time. This could not be done without reading stylistic treatises of Fabris’ time and understanding (here too) the rules of the art that Fabris must have used while writing – rules that have their roots in the classical rhetoric of Aristotle and Hermogenes.

Brian: Many of the fighting treatises were meant, perhaps, as memory cues for students learning a physical art in a living tradition. For the modern student, this causes problems as much is left unrecorded. Do you think this is true for Salvator’s text?

Tom: Well, not in the same sense in which it would have been true for a much earlier work such as that by Fiore de’Liberi (1409). By the late-Renaissance, the role of books had changed, emphasizing the explicative over the mnemonic. Fabris’ work is a treatise in the true sense of the word, and it contains explanations of both the ABC and the advanced and subtle aspects of the art. The original audience of Fabris’ book comprised students and professors alike, and he took this into consideration while writing. There is practically nothing important that Fabris fails to define – so much so that his book is also an excellent Rosetta Stone to interpret other swordsmanship works of the time.

Brian: The casual browser will perhaps look at the “naked little guys” on each plate and wonder why they are so depicted. What do you think?

Tom: (Laughs). Well, I must admit that my modern sensibility was a little shocked at first, although I had seen unclad figures in other Italian treatises from as late as the 1800’s. However, once I realized that this was both an artistic and a scientific work, I began to understand that the figures were there for a specific purpose: that of showing exactly what muscles are working. Fabris was an athlete, as were most serious martial artists at the time. His understanding of body-mechanics was superior, as evidenced by the emphasis he puts on such concepts as “union of forces.” Therefore, he chose the best possible medium to convey the physically correct aspect of his discipline.

Brian: How does Salvatore Fabris fit into the context of other famous teachers of the rapier, such as Capo Ferro, Alfieri, and Giganti?  

Tom: Fabris fits this context very consistently. Italian fencing has a very strong identity, from a standpoint of tactics, techniques and terminology. And in all these aspects, Fabris belongs to the very mainstream, contrary to the opinion of those who skimmed his text only superficially. For instance, it was fashionable among Victorian fencing historians to dismiss Fabris as eccentric because of his forward-leaning guards – without considering a) that other famous authors such as Alfieri advocate them and b) that Fabris clearly says that such a stance is preferred but optional. 

Furthermore, Fabris’ theory on dominating the opponent’s blade, cavazioni, feints, invitations, footwork and other aspects is very consistent with the authors of his time; only, to find as much information as Fabris gives one would have to read five other treatises, and still fall short.

Brian: How about within the Italian tradition extending back to Fiore dei Liberi and forward into the modern day?

Tom: There is surely a stylistic continuum between the earliest Italian master known to us (Fiore) and Classical fencing. I took up Classical fencing relatively recently and when I did, I had a wonderful opportunity to compare notes with Maestro Sean Hayes, a certified Classical fencing instructor from a living tradition that passes through Masaniello Parise, the founder of Italy’s Scuola Magistrale. Many of the principles described by Fabris have a close parallel with Classical fencing, even though there are important differences too, especially in the mechanics.

I realized that understanding Fabris made it considerably easier for me to understand Classical fencing. This is because Fabris has equipped me with some immutable, scientific principles that also apply to other fencing disciplines.

Brian: Is there any value in this material for those who engage in sport fencing, for Classical fencers, or fencing in an SCA context?

Tom: Oh, absolutely. Before my study of Fabris, I had never practiced any other kind of fencing activities. When entered my very first rapier tournament (attended by about four dozens of the most prominent fencers in the historical swordsmanship community as well as the SCA), I tied for first place. I wish I could impute this to talent or physical prowess – but the reality is that I prevailed just by following Fabris’ teachings. The less of Tom Leoni and the more of Fabris I put into my fencing, the better my results. Also, after I give a Fabris seminar to an SCA group, I find that most attendees never leave the system, since they find it more effective than anything they have tried before.

Classical fencers can benefit from Fabris in two ways. First of all, they can see the earliest exposition of so many of the principles familiar to them. Secondly, Fabris is perhaps a better resource than any for what Classical fencers call “actions in time” – meaning actions in which a motion of the opponent is interrupted with an attack in opposition.

As far as sport fencers, understanding Fabris can make them much better defensive players. Defense is not emphasized as much in modern electrified sport-fencing, and returning to the roots from a time when swords were sharp can help in this regard.

Brian: How would you recommend a student interested in rapier combat go about studying Fabris?

Tom: As I say in my introduction to the book, follow the contents blindly. Start with the first part of book 1, which deals with the sword alone. Do not be tempted to move on to sword and dagger or sword and cape until you have spent a considerable amount of time on single sword, because this is where all the important concepts of tempo, measure, advantage of the sword and cavazioni are learned.

Also, do not skip directly to the illustrations of the guards and the actions. Study the theory first. I cannot emphasize enough how important this is. It is a commonplace axiom that fencing is a mind-game – but how can one play a mind-game without a thorough knowledge of theory? Once you understand the theory, use the action-plates to come up with partnered drills. The beauty of these is that neither the person who “wins” nor the one who “loses” is ever supposed to make a technical mistake – thus no bad habits have to be practiced.

My fellow instructor Steven Reich and I are available for questions on my school’s website (the Order of the Seven Hearts) at www.salvatorfabris.com. We are both full-time workers with wives, but we love sharing our passion with interested students – so don’t be afraid to write.

Brian: What other books and resources do you recommend for the study of Fabris in particular, and historical fencing in general?

Tom: This is an easy one: anything you can get your hands on. I have a “theory of concentric circles” that goes something like this. If your main interest is (say) in an Italian rapier treatise from 1606, your next priority should be reading other Italian rapier treatises from 1606 – then from 1610, then from 1575 and 1640 and so on. Unfortunately many of these are still un-translated, but this is bound to change in the next few years.

As far as modern or contemporary interpretations, there is a new crop of researchers who are putting out some pretty outstanding work – like Christian Tobler, Guy Windsor, William Wilson, Stephen Hand and others – all of whom have in common a strong attachment to their primary sources as well as the intellectual honesty and ability to analyze them.

Another extremely valuable resource is attending the various annual multi-organizational swordsmanship events, such as WMAW (Chicago), LISMAC (Lansing), etc. Here, most of the respected researchers and teachers present classes and are available for questions.

Brian: Do you have any other projects in the works that you can hint at for our readers?

Tom: I am preparing an illustrated rapier manual based on Fabris and aimed at the modern student. Also, I have outlined a small compendium on Renaissance polearms, which is another major love of mine. I won’t be able to complete any of this work until this Fall, though, because this year I am very busy teaching seminars. But I am very much looking forward to continuing my work in the historical martial arts field.

Brian: Tom, we very much appreciate the time you’ve taken to say a few words to our readers. Is there anything else you’d like to add?

Tom: Thank you, Brian, it was my pleasure. I’d only like to add this for all the swordsmanship students out there. Remember that your discipline is both a mental and a physical one. Try to remain fit in both senses. Intellectual honesty and curiosity are to the mind what a scale and a treadmill are to the body – always try to be the best you can.

Brian: Tommaso Leoni's Book, Art of Dueling, Salvatore Fabris' rapier fencing treatise of 1606 will be released in late June, 2005. This was a monumental effort by Tom, the book's editor Gregory Mele, and a whole army of contributors (especially Mr. Christopher Amberger, who was saintly in his loaning of his original copy). Order your copy today--you won't be disappointed.